Wednesday, 8 April 2009

Annika Östberg back in Sweden today

Annika Östberg is today back on Swedish mark,
after spending 28 years in Californian prison!

Annika moved to USA as a little preschool girl, her mother meet an American man. The couple experienced that the daughter was in the way of their new love. Annika had to move to his relatives. Unwanted and unloved, she did as most unseen kids, she went into a way of living that was bad for her. As expected, by 12 she got into youth prison. She escaped from youth prison at the age of 13, and lived as a prostitute for living, and to stand out in this situation she started to use heroin in the flower power era in San Francisco. At 15 she gave birth to a son! (He later died in a car accident 1985).

From childhood and on and on her life was field of tragedies and criminal acting out. It ended up with a scene where Annikas boyfriend shoot a policeman to death. They had stopped their car, and Annika went into the "ladies" in the woods, a police car stopped, and Annika went back to the car, the the boyfriend shoot the policeman. Annika got prison for life for "distracting" the policeman when she came back to the car. 28 years she has spent in American prison, fostering their police dogs. Today she arrived to Sweden, at Hinseberg Prison. One must be thankful that she did not get the electric chair for existing on this earth! To me she got into prison when her parents did not want her any more when she was 5-6 years old.

Welcome back - may You get peace in life in Sweden!


ANNA-LYS said...

Why didn't youth prison helped her to correction? Is Annika a victim for bad parenthood, social system that doesn't help children and youths?

In the very end she was convicted for being a distraction, and this from a situation where she was of non-existence for her parent.

Is this a positive development from an existential perspective?

laughingwolf said...

that's very tragic :(

Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...

"being a distraction" is not a crime in Sweden, if I am correctly informed. So it is possible, spending time in swedish gaol, for breaking foreign law. Maybe Gonzales, who got 900 years for insulting the president of the Banana Republic, and Hassan in the Islamic Republic with a death sentece for blasphemy, may stay at our hotels, too.
Take care!

Zee said...

What a story!
It does give you the reminder, that the US has the largest incarceration (imprisonment) rate in the world per capita ...

Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...

Someone referred to it as a "pathological society". Annika will probably have more space at Hinsan, than in the californian prison.

ANNA-LYS said...

Annika was released from Californian Prison due to the Obahma Effect (humanity and saving American tax money)


Kirti said...

Congrats on your well deserved "post of the day" and thank you for letting me know about mine! Best of luck!

imac said...

Its sad thet Annika didnt have the love of her parents, maybe got into the wrong crowd and got led astray.

Marie said...

Det er ikkje lett å vere uønska, ein blir prega for livet...

Trist å lese om overgrepa du fortel om i ein tidlegare post her også.
Godt at nokon er villige til å hjelpe dei ut or situvasjonen.

God helg :)

Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...

The judical system seeks revenge to an extent, that seems absurd to me. Maybe the "Obama impact" will correct this. Hard punishments do not prevent from crime, statistics prove.

Katten försvann said...

Who is she?

Hanneles påskparadis said...

tufft liv har hon haft.

Mag said...

What a load of crap! You forgot to mention that she was previously sentenced to prison for second-degree murder. And the last crime spree started with the couple robbing a bar owner and the boy-friend shooting the man (a robbery Annika apparently planned). And her distracting the police man was not just coming back from the woods, but rather digging in her purse for her driving license as the boyfriend shoot the police man. After they fled a shoot out with the police occured during which Annika helped to re-load the gun.

So much for just getting caught up in a bad situation. And the 28 years spent fostering police dogs apparently also consisted of continuing with drugs since she's failed a few drug tests while in prison.

And who thinks Obama had anything to do with her release? It's purely a matter of the Californian Governor trying to save money.

The only tragic part of this story is the 3 deaths in which Annika has been involved and the grieving relatives of the victims.

ANNA-LYS said...

Nothing, nothing is as refreshing for a dialogue as a different opinion. Thank You very much!
Due to that You have hide Your profile and home country, I have to take a wild guess -> American!

In Sweden we don't blame on friends, girlfriends or boyfriends if the significant other commit murder. It doesn't heal the poor family that lost their love one.

In America You are sentenced to jail, in other cultures You may lose your hands or head. I am a Scandinavian, and as such I have a different view opon crime and punishment.

Does Your kind of punishment hinder crime in Your society? No!

Instead of punishment for life, I suggest You look over Your weapon laws. Because, without weapons, there will not be that much killing!

Thank You very much, indeed for Your input here!

Mag said...

Not a very good guess. I'm Swedish, but instead of reading just some of the articles in Swedish papers I have actually broadened my perspective and read some more critical views.

And she would most likely have been convicted for the crimes in Sweden as well. She was not just an innocent bystander. For a comparison we can take the Malexander shootings were all three were convicted for the police killings even though only one of them was really responsible for pulling the trigger.

Sweden also have life sentences which doesn't have a fixed length, same as in the U.S.

I don't agree with all of the gun laws in the US, but many studies have shown that stricter gun laws isn't the best way of reducing gun-related crimes.

everything isn't always black or white, and not as easy as some journalists make it.

ANNA-LYS said...

No, she is not an innocent bystander, she is a criminal since before she was 12 (read my blogpost). She was a distracter in this case.

As with all research, scientific or not, it is important to understand from which culture and social and justice system the report is written. Every, article has to be washed from those biases and not read from A to Z as pure facts, it is subjective and social interpretations of "in situ" we are reading, always! One might say that "fact articles" always mirrors the socioculture from which they are written.

As for the content in my post, if You read the labels above, You will see that I hi-light from which perspective I write (child abuse & youth tragedy) and Anna-Lyserar ;-)

My critic here is how she is handle from childhood, meaning that this development could be seen early and could have been hindered.

As a preschooler she was left in a American home, with persons she did not know, and with a language she did not understand ... I put my emphasis on the importance of the early childhood, and the responsibility we adults have.

And as I said ... i am also against the American weapon laws ....

ANNA-LYS said...

I agree upon that some journalists are making this an "easy cake", but that has to be seen in the light of 28 years!

Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...

I did not say she is innocent. She is proven guilty of crime(s)earlier.She expiate her crime in a swedish prison. It's quite OK to me, but if the act is not criminalized by swedish law, I find it dubious. "Distracting a policeman" is not a serious crime in Sweden. It would not yield lifetime in prison. If she was the one, who planned the murder, she should be convicted of that. If this could not be proved, she should be regarded as 'not guilty'. That is the way I believe swedish court reason. How papers reason I do not know, and I think it is irrelevant.

Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...

I read it once again. The blog is about her tragic background, not about her guilt. I was careless, and fell off track. So this is an analysis of how an unhappy childhood predestines a person? Knowing Anna-Lys, I am sure she does not believe in predestination, but in the freedom of choice. So it is social criticism,using Annika Östberg as an example. Zee understood this, but I did not.
I am sure childhood means a lot, but it does not predestine. So what AL says, there is a difference in education,in states ruled by law, that results in difference in imprisonment. If the youth prison would have been swedish or north korean, her behaviour would have been corrected.Is this a plausible explanation?

ANNA-LYS said...

Yepp Tykot!


right on mag! hopefully she won't be a distraction to the Swedish justice system. i'm very familiar with the american prison system. believe it or not there are a few persons who actually belong there anna.

ANNA-LYS said...

That is not the issue at hand here.
What I (try to)put forward here is the responsibility we all have to react in time, for children that doesn't have the proper support in life.

Annika is a concrete example;

Her parents left her in a home where they did not even speak or understood Swedish.
Jail time at 12!!
What she didn't know by 12, she learned in prison ....

I don't think children get the right kind of love, respect and care in a prison ... but, again, I am just a Swede, not a barbarian.

ANNA-LYS said...

Or ...
did You actually mean that some babies are born to be criminals from the first breath take they take in life`?

ANNA-LYS said...

and with right to wear weapon I meant

"we declare...
That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state."

"The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms for their common defense."

(The Constitution, Second Amendment... something)


anna your knowledge of our humble republic is prolific but outdated. i refer you to the sullivan law of new york city, which states that possession of a weapon is punishable by imprisonment of not less than one year. half the facts are worse than no facts, i'm very sorry to say.

Mag said...

It seems like a lot of the commentators as well as Anna-Lys have a very dated view of the American judicial system and a view formed from watching too many TV-shows and movies. Sprinkle in some prejudice helped on by reading the biased Swedish news, which most of the time will only bring up the worst parts of the US.

For some reason they seem to think the US system is extremely flawed and will put innocent people behind bars just to please the victims and exert revenge, while the Swedish system would never do such a thing.

And Annika wasn't sent to jail at 12. But rather a youth correctional facility, just as would happen in Sweden for the same type of crimes. I'm not saying she had a good upbringing, but a lot of people have had a rough childhood without ending up like this.

I'm just trying to put some perspective on your blog post. If you would have no prior knowledge of the case it would be easy to misinterpret your post, just as the first couple of comments show.

ANNA-LYS said...

Thank You JW and MEG!
I really appreciate different opinions, without them there is no dialogue, and no learning experience. I reflect upon Your comments, even if they "shot" besides the target :-D

I might have an old view of the law in U.S., but IF that is so its not from the Swedish news. I have lived in Washington DC and in San Francisco, and I haven't been there since 2002.

Forgive me if I am not up to date, but her childhood and youth experience as a prostitute and heroin user was back them.

I myself have been shot at 1976, when I lived in SF, so I have a very subjective and bad experience.

My experience of living in US, lately (2002) is even worst (Washington DC), people are changed, shared and by that dangerous.

And You can't compare the Swedish way of taking care of Youth with the American way. We and the system have different view upon human function and development.

// AnnA

ANNA-LYS said...

You two are cowards hiding out there without blogs to share Your thoughts upon. Still, I am polite and answer your comments. Most bloggers shouldn't even care doing that. It doesn´t feel OK.
JW You have earlier told me that You work as a blacksmith at Rikers Island, New York. That if anything colours your view. Because a prison is a zoo, lots of living creatures behind bars. I myself would go nuts if I was looked up like that, I probably would turn into a killer, in my surviving process. And for You MEG are You in the military force? a non-social politician? a police man?, a prisoner? I don't know, and can't by that understand Your view from Your view, it is just words, and no nuances. I thought before that You was an American, and by the way You express Yourself, You still are in my eyes. Today we have lot's of those thinkers in Sweden, its sad, very sad. Not that I am a nationalist, I am more of a global thinker ... and my interest is in our future, meaning children and our planet.

Mag said...

No I don't have a blog, since I feel I don't have the time for that. I can assure you I'm Swedish. (Jag kan skriva lite på svenska så kanske du blir övertygad. )

I'm not in the military or in law enforcement of any kind. Can't really see how my profession or even nationality would matter. (I work in I.T. btw and is married, not a politician but politically interested, libertarian and find the US very fascinating) Isn't it my words and opinions that should be judged and debated with, not my background. (I can see how this sounds a bit odd since I've labeled you somewhat as well, for which I apologize.) You just happened to say the same things as others I've had discussions with that have no first hand knowledge of the U.S.

I just feel your views on the Swedish judicial system is a bit naive. We might have a different view then some US states, but that is still a democratically chosen system.

And I really can't understand this (at least in the beginning of the reporting) image of Annika Östberg-Deasy as a victim of bad circumstances. And everyone that says she's spent 28 years in jail and has paid her price.

Not trying to compare the two criminals, but where are the people standing up for Mattias Flink in his trying to get his life sentence changed to a set time sentence. Again I'm not comparing the crimes, just the way of thinking.

ANNA-LYS said...

MAGTack för att du ändock tar dig tid att uttrycka dina tankar här :-)

Du har säkert inte läst min blogg sen 2005, och kan därför omöjligen känna till att jag inte besitter dina kunskaper. Jag är inte så lite provocerande, har jag förstått. Hoppas att jag är en nagel i ögat på samtiden, för jag månar om framtiden.

Mina poster är alltid skrivna från ett integrerat utvecklingspsykologiskt - och psykoanalytiskt perspektiv (inte så lite surrealistiska), lagar, ekonomi etc har jag bara dålig allmänkunskap om. Jag rör om i grytan, ändå :-)

Jag tycker att vi reflekterar allt för lite runt det vi korvstoppas med i TV, tidningar och för all del, även i blogvärlden. Jag försöker hålla en språklig nivå, som ska gå hem hos de flesta, kanske en aningens utsträckt gummiband, så det finns plats för lärande och utveckling.

Hur många svältande människor finns i USA idag, hur många fängelser, hur många bär vapen?

Något är fel här!

När det gäller vapen, kan jag upplysa dig om att de flesta amerikanska bloggare jag stött på har vapen till eget skydd.

Ha en bra vecka!

(anledningen till bakgrundsnyfikenhet, bygger på att jag vill förstå. Ord betyder olika i skilda kontexter, om man verkligen vill ta en annans perspektiv, är det viktigt att få tillgång till lite nycklar så man pratar i rätt rum)

ANNA-LYS said...

JWYour e-mails doesn't give any stuff to this discussion. IF you think I give to little space for different opinions, I will try to do better!

But, if I don't change opinion, it doesn't make me to that bad person You describe in Your e-mails to me.
I happen to like that people have an opinion of their own. Maybe my Swenglish makes this a mission impossible?

Please, don't make me stop blogging again, as last time!

I am entitle to both a subjective opinion, AND to create provocations to reveal other peoples thoughts (if they care to express them).

(( ughs n' hugs ))


ANNA-LYS said...

I am sorry, I don't know anything about Mattias Flinks child- and adulthood experience, but please tell me!

Mag said...

So now ones childhood experiences should determine how the courts treat you when you've committed a crime? Or how should your last comment be interpreted?

Jag har aldrig hävdat att USA är paradiset på jorden, finns många saker som kan bli bättre. Sen vägen dit är en helt annan fråga. Vapen finns på väldigt många ställen, lagstiftningen skiljer sig även väldigt mycket mellan de olika staterna. Och det är inte alltid staterna med de mest liberala lagarna som har mest brottslighet. Frågan är lite mer komplex än bara lagstiftning.

ANNA-LYS said...

No, but that is not my point here, my point is, if I have one, is that we must be better in child- and youth care. Not everyone develop into criminality, so we can judge them due to their early experience in life, neither can we judge mature people depending on their earlier experience. We must judge upon the situation "in situ", always.

But, we can do better to hinder criminal development early on, in high risk groups, like the one Annika belonged, to.

I don't know enough about if Flink was from an early generated risk group, or what went wrong later in life ... I have read about some kind of alienation against women that should be grounded in his relation to his mother, and that his father and grandfather built weapons for living, and that he later joined the military force, where he went mental ill.

But, reading is not the same as knowing.

He got 12 years? (= lifetime in practice in Sweden) if I am right informed. He murdered 7 people, Annika didn't first degree murdering, and she got a lot, lot more, 28 years has passed for here in prison, and she is still there!

ANNA-LYS said...

And I hope there is a huge difference between prison care in US and in Sweden.

ANNA-LYS said...

Surveyade lite artiklar om Flink;

OM han befann sig i ett psykotiskt tillstånd, som man menar inte kommer att upprepas, förstår jag inte varför han inte beviljas annan vård, än fängelsevård.

Mag said...

As I said I wasn't comparing the crimes. And for the record his appeal to have his sentence set to a specific length was denied by HD (the Swedish supreme court). He wanted it determined to 24 years, but all instances ruled against. This was also a case where the judicial system bent over backwards to send him to prison and not to a mental facility as was the norm at that time.

Of course it's important with some sort of prison care, not just locking someone up and thinking they'll do better once they're released. It's just that I'm not sure we're much better in Sweden. We also have a public view of someone as "once a criminal, always a criminal".

ANNA-LYS said...

I don't share the public view, but it takes lots of support to get into the right track again.

When it comes to criminal behaviour under the influence of both drugs and psychosis, it is hard and wrong to judge the person as a mental stable one.

I think he might have been judge to make an example of what Sweden do to mass murderer, no matter the circumstances. The judge in this case can't be called in democratic process, that is, if we don't by democratic mean the massmedia.

ANNA-LYS said...

I noticed that scientific articles supports my view, if Flink has a mental or neurological disorder, for example Aspergers syndrome.

Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...

Statistics show US and Russia have the largest figures of imprisonment. In US it is 500 or more /100000. The swedish number is about 80. At least we can conclude, that the punishment does not discourage you from committing crime. What it is, that makes a person criminal, I can't tell. The ease, by which you can purchase firearms and drugs, may play a rôle. This is not simple, but it is a problem to the US society.

Mag said...

A large number of American prisoner are in jail due to drug-related crimes. One must ask what effect the war on drugs have had.

From The Economist: "It arrests 1.5m of its citizens each year for drug offences, locking up half a million of them; tougher drug laws are the main reason why one in five black American men spend some time behind bars."

Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...

So, you read a newspaper. Is your conclusion, that we will have 500 prisoners /100000 i Sweden too, when the drugs cross the Atlantic Ocean? BTW - I can't open your blog. :-)

ANNA-LYS said...

Tykotplease keep a nice tone at my blog
thank You!

MAG ister?It is very sad that people take drugs. But, knowing how mentally hurt, and socially alienated the soldiers are since they came back from Vietnam etcetera, I guess they couldn't find any other way to unconnect memories and emotions. US soldiers are still sent out, to kill, and comes back to "nada" ...


Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...

Yes, ma'm! I'll do my best. I spent a long time doing research, and overreacted, when somebody quotes a newspaper. We have a lot of problems here, and it is not easy for an old man, like me. I was going to bring up subjects like 'returning soldiers' and 'unemployment', but I was afraid it would make things worse.
There is a new sherif in town. Hopefully he won't undertake new missions abroad. This may save a generation. There is another kind of soldiers: the police. Do they act like swedish, canadian or british police officers? I have prejudies, that I admit. It is easy to have an opinion, when one doesn't have all the facts. And Annika Östberg, what will she learn from staying in a swedish prison? I hope she will be rehabilitated.

Mag said...

Yes I read newspapers. I find that a better way of spending my time than writing blog posts no-one is interested in. I also try and at least cite some sources if possible when giving numbers in a discussion.

My point being was, that the US puts alot of people in jail for victim-less crimes, which drug offenses are imho.

Zee said...

Hmm, interesting conversations.
I guess, one thing always leads to an other...
"När det gäller vapen, kan jag upplysa dig om att de flesta amerikanska bloggare jag stött på har vapen till eget skydd..."
This is probably a bit exaggerated, Ana-Lys. Having more relaxed gun laws in America, there are still not substantial differences of dead bodies on your doorstep in comparison to the rest of the western hemisphere.
When I lived in Europe (and also Scandinavia) my conclusion was that the tendency was that "southerners" were more homicidal and "northernes" more suicidal (as a tendency) -
I can assure you, that most bloggers don't have a gun in their drawer for self defense (except me of course). Truthfully, "selfdefence" hardly ever happens in real life, and it rarely plays out to be of any kind of value.
The second amendment in the US constitution was solely created to insure that people could have a counterweight and means if Washington (the central government) gets out of control.
Now these were 18thth and 19th century thoughts - and perhaps at that time they were somewhat useful.
Nowadays we are caught in a system where the "right to carry arms" means little and the original intent to be able to counter-weigh the government in times of distress and thereby shove them into their purposeful corner, limit their power, that is now obsolete.
We can argue back and forth of what system is more humane, the Scandinavian one or the one from the US. But that is not the point. Both rely on the same stance or philosophy that people have to be "corrected" and "readjusted" by means of intimidation.
This is where Ana-Lys'es post comes in. She merely tried to point out that correction and social-readjustment can only be achieved through means that go beyond simple prison terms.
Maybe her opening chords of the statement were colored, but her intent to poke a finger into the impossibilities to cure social deprivation (and as a result their unhealthy outcomes) were well understood from my side.
Healing can only start with compassion, not correction!

Mag said...

Nice, balanced post Zee. It might not have come across, but I by no means think that the US prison system is flawless, or even preferred, nor is the Swedish. Both countries (as well as most in the world) use the prisons primarily as a holding facility, no real effort goes in to trying to get the inmates adjusted to the outside world once they're released.

There needs to be a second chance for people and a feeling among the public that once you've served your time, you should once again be considered as the rest. Not as a criminal.

How many chances you should be given is a whole different discussion...

ANNA-LYS said...

Thank You Zee for putting this post back on track. I appreciate being understood, and I hate to discuss things I don't know about. Sometimes my politeness go to far, but this happens often when visitors that are non-bloggers participate. I don't know where t turn, no blog, no e-mail, just a vacuum. It turns into a forum-discussion instead but, drops in focus.

You are a New Yorker, Zee, and so are JW, You are almost Europeans ... meaning its wrong of me to describe experiences from California, Florida and Texas, etcetera and paint it as a picture for the US. There are huge differences between South and North in US, as well. :-D

Yes, my content was meant to hi light the importance of childhood and support during adolescence.

Trevlig Helg

ANNA-LYS said...

Interesting, only US bloggers from New York has commented on this post compared to all my other posts LOL

// Anna-Lys

med en nagel i ögat på samtiden


Tyko Brae (exgen. NB) said...


Zee said...

OK Mag - thanks for the "heads up."
I have to clarify something to you Anna. I was born in Basel/Switzerland, grew up there, lived five years in Norway, studied in Freiburg/Germany, have an American father and a German mother and live in the US (in a very much country setting) 2 1/2 hours from NYC up the Hudson river ... since 22 years.
My dual nationality is Swiss/American. So no, I am not a "New Yorker", but I on occasion like to visit there.
If I were a dog, you could definitely call me a bastard, that is how mixed up I am. Since I am human, that expression is only valid on rare occasions.

ANNA-LYS said...

Zee Thanks for your personal geographic history, You have told me before ;-)
Still, You live in New York state, I haven't said You lived in New York City. We where talking about that states in US has different laws, if I am not wrong. I knew You where a artful New York farmer :-)

I am provocative, because I think it is pretty odd, that my US friends avoid displaying their opinion :-)

But, You knew this!

If You where a dog, I would hold You in lose leash ;-)

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